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Drone Footage at Your Club : DIY and Hiring a Pro (Flight Creative Media) [Episode 6]

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Breathtaking aerial videography used to cost thousands of dollars to capture, but with drone technology, that has changed. Thanks to drone videography, it's never been easier or more cost-effective to shoot breathtaking video from high above your property. Finding a reliable and capable partner is the challenge. Sure, you could hire an amateur to handle this job, but what should you look for if you're looking for a pro to really nail the shots you need?

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Jack Knudsen is the co-founder and CEO of Flight Creative Media. He's also a licensed drone pilot and has been flying since 2013. In this episode, Jack shares with us his suggestions for finding the best drone crew for your needs and offers helpful tips for amateur, and hopeful, drone pilots. If you've thought about having a video with drone footage produced for your club, you'll want to tune into this episode. 

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1:00 - How Flight Creative Got Started

ED: Can you share with the listeners how you came up with Flight Creative?

JACK: Well, a couple of us are family members. Both of my brothers are in it, and our dad was in the Air Force growing up. We traveled around the country, and the sound of Air Force jets screaming overhead has always been something that's been inspiring, not only to us brothers but to everybody in the company. I know all the guys have had an avid interest in Star Wars and aviation, in general. The idea of upward and onward, I guess.

ED: Yeah, I think that's so cool. And the fact is that the history of drone pilots is really about actual licensed pilots who are licensed to fly these types of aircraft.

JACK: That's right. It's definitely been a work in progress from the regulation framework, in terms of what the FAA has allowed someone like me, who didn't have a background in general aviation, to be integrated into the National Airspace. It really stemmed from a foundation of safety first in flying, and keeping the airspace free for general aviation traffic to move around freely without being interfered with by drones, which, as you know, is a potential risk.

You hear media stories that happen every so often, but starting with that general aviation knowledge framework was a good way to have people who needed to learn about those safety aspects or just general airport operations and where to keep safe distances from. I think it was a good place to start. It definitely had its snags, and it took a long time for the FAA to get to where we are today. But, even just this month, we have the rolling out of the LAANC approval system for airspace authorization requests. A year ago, we had to wait for a period of time to get approval to fly in certain airspace. But today, integrated through some very popular apps that drone pilots use, you can submit a request and within seconds have an answer from the towers at these airports, telling you whether or not you can fly right now. So, that's a huge step forward and it really did stem from the general aviation background.

3:14 - Intro to Hiring a Drone Crew

ED: We'll have to get into that because that's something that, a lot of times, I think, amateur pilots just ignore. They don't even think about it. So, let's dive into some of the meat of today's talk around drone footage for clubs. And whether it's a golf club, I've seen some terrific video for yacht clubs, as well. I mean, some of the imagery over water is spectacular. But, just getting right to it, for a general manager or a marketing director, someone who is interested in using drone footage and wants to hire a drone crew. What do you do and what should they be looking for? I mean, the first thing I do is I go and Google something, but let's say they do that, then what questions should they be looking for?

JACK: That's a great question because I think there's a lot of opportunities and options in today's world to do a quick Google search and, maybe even if you have a drone, go out and put it up and achieve essentially a similar result to a high-end aerial production.

One thing I would highly encourage is to ensure that whoever you're hiring to do the aerial work is certified and knowledgeable about what the rules are, and where you can and cannot fly. And at what times you can and cannot fly. Beyond that, just having a general sense of safety and respect for people's privacy is a good trait to be considering. But really, with the focus on safety, there's a number of different platforms and aircraft options. Depending on the scope of what you're trying to accomplish, you can have a small $800 unit that will do some very quality work, but you can also have something that's a little beefier, give you a real cinematic, depth-of-field, shallow focus look for the type of shot that you're trying to execute, It's really just what you're looking for.

5:06 - What Kind of Paperwork Does the Crew Need?

ED: We'll talk about the gear, as well, today. But, along the lines of certified pilots and licensing, should a certified drone pilot and crew have that paperwork ready for you? If they're fumbling around, is that maybe an indicator that they may not be certified?

JACK: You know, from my experience, I always have that stuff ready to go at a drop of a hat. I have my license, I have any documentation that I need. I make sure I have an email handy of building or location permissions. Being certified and being ready to go from that standpoint is one thing, but I think getting permissions from the right people at the right times is another step where sometimes there can be some confusion, if the marketing director is booking somebody to come do some aerial work and then they get there but the building owner or someone on the grounds crew wasn't aware. If you're nice and willing to show that you're there legitimately and you have the proper licensing and documentation to be doing that, I think just being friendly is also helpful. You can't overstate that.

6:15 - Why Use a Two-Person Crew?

ED: People who aren't used to, or have never produced drone footage, may not realize that a lot of times it's a two-person crew. I know that's how you guys like to operate. Can you just walk through why use a two-person crew? What are the advantages? What if a marketing director is going, "he's a drone guy, and he says he can shoot." What are the things people should consider in that situation?

JACK: Yeah, absolutely. We fly the DJI Inspire 2 with our two-man operations team, and that basically allows me to fly the aircraft with one remote controller, totally separate from the camera gimbal. And Nate, who's our chief cinematographer, will use a similar remote control, but it operates the camera gimbals separately, so you can really execute smooth, seamless shots while your aircraft is moving in a direction that's totally separate from where the camera is focusing on. And that has an advantage, like I mentioned, for the cinematic quality of the types of shots you're able to execute.

But that's not to say you can't achieve similar things with smaller, cheaper units. It really comes down to your preference for what type of image quality you're looking for and ease of use. From a pilot standpoint, it's nice having somebody worried about capturing the shot. That allows me to worry about being safe and not hitting anything if we're in a tight area. But there are some times, especially with more and more indoor shoots that are popping up, and as the sensing technology becomes better on these smaller units, to have one guy do everything. With a smaller sized aircraft, it's a little bit easier to control. They can't go as far, can't go as fast, can't handle quite as much wind, so there are some limiting factors, but it really just comes down to what you're more comfortable with than what you're trying to accomplish.

ED: So, it's kind of like driving versus driving and texting. You can do them both, but you probably shouldn't. So, if you want to get some really specific shots, or you want to move the drone or fly the drone in a certain way, with a very specific shot, it's probably helpful to have a two-person crew, but you don't absolutely have to have it.

JACK: Totally. It can make it easier, but it's not essential. But it definitely helps.

8:41 - DIY vs Pro

ED: It's like an amateur videographer. It's like, "Hey, we got a shot of this person singing her song on the stage." You did. It's not a very good shot, but you got it, and if that's all you care about, that you captured that moment in some way, nice work. But if you wanted it to look a little bit different, if you wanted a different point of view, if you wanted it to have a different texture or whatever that is, there are other ways you could do that. I'm just thinking about this, like as a drone shooter, it's like, "Yeah, you can get that, but you might have been able to do it better or differently."

JACK: Exactly. You're spot on with that. And I think, in today's world, where everybody has a high-quality camera in their pocket, everyone can be a filmmaker or a photographer these days. But, like you said, it really is the content of what you're hoping to capture in the way you're hoping to capture it versus just having the ability to do so. You can be a little more creative. We fly the X5S camera on Inspire 2, which allows us to swap out different focal length lenses, so we can really manage and mitigate the type of shot that we're hoping to achieve, in that way versus having the smaller Mavic Air or Mavic Pro. You're not quite as able to achieve that level of cinematic shot composure.

10:10 - All About the Gear

ED: Okay, let's dumb this down a little bit. You've got some good buzzwords in there. So, for the focal length of lenses, that means some of the drone cameras can swap out lenses, and I'm assuming some of them are a higher-end product than some of the others. Let's talk, what should club managers and people who are considering this service, what should they know about the gear? So often people show up and say this is the gear we use, but is it helpful for them to be knowledgeable?

JACK: Some of that work, we'd like to take on our end, since we have a fleet of three that we operate right now, for the different purposes, different types of shoots that we're on. Some clients do have a real specific need. They're a video shooter, they know what type of file they're looking for. They even know what kind of shot composition they're hoping to achieve. They're more like a director of photography, coming at it with that sort of standpoint. That's great, we love working with them, too. It's fun having folks who know exactly what they're hoping to achieve. Then we can go do our best to go get that.

But then there are also people who really have no idea where to even start. We take a listen to what they're hoping to accomplish, also. And if we can get the same thing done, and maybe the budget's a little bit less for a one-man, smaller unit, well go with that. But, these days, and I wouldn't have said this a year ago, or especially any longer than that, but today the gear and the camera, the image that comes out of any of these products is very comparable and very similar. So, for an $800 investment versus $1,200 versus, you know, even up to $2,000, you're really going to get a very similar, non-distinguishable image out of that. Now, what you can do with that image in post, and what you can do with that image in the camera to create shots, that's really the advantage of having some of the higher-end stuff. But just from a high-level, basic standpoint, if you're looking to get into something today, anything $700 all the way up is going to give you something that you can be proud to put on your Website.

12:35 - The Right Drone for the Right Situation

ED: That's really helpful to know because I think sometimes people think, "What am I going to get for $1200 versus $800?" But understanding that a lot of these clubs are shooting exteriors, whether it's a golf course or whether it's a yacht in one of the Great Lakes or in the ocean, are there some cameras that are built more for that than others, and which ones? What would you recommend if you were going to use some of those?

JACK: For anything high-end, and with wind factors like 25 mile-an-hour gusts, which is usually the threshold that the GPS will keep the big Inspire 2 locked in location, there's quite a size difference between that and something like the Mavic Pro or Mavic Air, which tends to get tossed around a little bit easier in gusty winds. So, it really comes down to the day that you have set for production, that you're looking to shoot. If your weather conditions are looking to be turning unfavorable, the Inspire 2 is going to be able to handle that. Nine times out of ten, you're probably going to be fine getting away with achieving it. The other ones, you might have to wait a while, break down and reset until the weather conditions improve. But the cameras with the X5S on Inspire 2, with different focal lengths, allow you to — if it's really gusty around this corner of the building, 50 yards away from you — you can achieve that same shot from where you're sitting rather than needing to go up close like you might with some of the smaller stuff, where you're really capturing what you're viewing. Instead, with the Inspire 2, you might be able to swap a different lens on there and get super tight from a bit further away. And just being a bigger aircraft, it's able to withstand a bit more. The battery flight times are all pretty comparable.

ED: What can people expect for that?

JACK: Inspire 2, with X5S camera, which is a little bit heavier, you could still probably get close to 20 minutes of flight time, which, if you think about 20 minutes of continuous filming for video footage, that's quite a bit of content you're able to capture in just one flight of batteries. We have three sets that we'll cycle through, so we're pretty close to being able to continually operate with the charging setup that we have. The little ones, you get a little bit longer flight time, closer to 30 minutes. But again, that tends to be more than enough for what you're hoping to capture. Now, on something like a golf course, if your goal is to specifically capture something similar to what you see on a national TV broadcast, every hole, that might be something where you have to do a few times and reset, and land and recharge. But if you're just generally capturing coverage of a location or space, it's impressive what you're able to get out of one set of batteries.

15:25 - Picking the Right Shots

ED: The perspective that you get in using drone footage is so cool. And especially if you're shooting golf courses where you can see the course in a totally different way. What are the things that you've seen that you really like in drone photography, especially in golf? And what are some of the things that you can do without?

JACK: For me, and for us, we were at the age where we grew up playing Mario Golf on N64, and you'd get the hole preview, flying the low and slow approach of the whole hole, showing bunkers and hazards. And then when you get to the green area, there's a slow rise followed by a tilt down, and then you hear Mario with the "pin shot." To me, that was always the perfect framework, and as it's become integrated into the national broadcasts, and with the Players Championship coming up this week, I've already seen some coverage that's showcasing some really cool, slow sliding-type maneuvers through trees. But really, for me, if you're an avid golf enthusiast, if you're able to get a sense of what the hole looks and feels like, aside from seeing the sign placard, if you really want to see where that lie is going to maybe end up, being able to fly it low and slow and then reveal the hole right at the end with a nice tilt down, I think that's always nice.

ED: So, marketing directors, I can just hear them saying, "So, for me to get my tips on how to use this drone, I need to go play Super Mario Golf.

JACK: It's Pin Shot.

17:12 - About FAA Restrictions

ED: Let's get into some of the details that people may not think of. I hear this all the time, talking to people in clubs, and they say, "Well, I have a golf professional who just got a drone," or there's a director of marketing at a Minnesota resort that said he was on a second drone because he crashed his first one. But there is more for people to know that just going out and buying a drone and flying it over their golf course or their clubhouse or their buildings. FAA restrictions, what do people need to know that they may not know about that?

JACK: Sure. You're right on with the distinction between operating for hobbyist-use versus what falls under — it's called the Part 107 FAA Airspace Licensing Program. For a hobbyist, there are a little bit different rules around what you can and can't do. Same thing for the commercial side of things. If you're looking to use any of the content or data gathered in the air for your business or what's considered commercial use, the testing protocol for Part 107 requires a ground test, similar to going to the DMV if you're renewing your motorcycle license or car driver's license. I think that's a real positive step that the FAA took because it really forced the people who are going to be doing this to really take it seriously. And it still allows people who aren't so serious about selling their content, it still gives them the ability to fly safely. But it does separate the two. And it does really allow those Part 107 holders who have undertaken the knowledge test and learned the information about safety and airport procedures and airspace issues, it really empowered them to be able to utilize their aircraft in a different way. That wasn't the case for years leading up to this. I think September of 2016 is when this finally all rolled together into a licensing program that people were able to go pursue without needing to have their general pilot's license, which up until 2016 was the requirement. So it's come a long way. It still allows people to enjoy the drones, but there are definitely different rules around staying away from airports. You've got to keep a further distance if you're a hobbyist. You need to be flying in different conditions. You can't get the same waivers to these rules that you can apply for under Part 107. So, it has been an interesting evolution in that process.

ED: What I found to be interesting in talking about this in advance is the fact that some people might look at these FAA regulations like they're making it so hard for people to fly drones and production people to make money doing it. But the point is that these rules existed before people started putting drones up all over the place. And now the FAA seems like it's trying to say how do we adapt a little bit because the world has changed?

JACK: Yeah, the AMA, Academy of Model Aircraft, they've been around for decades, and they've been supporting model hobby flyers of helicopters, and fixed-wing prop plane type things for a number of years, and it was kind of a challenge for the FAA and for aircraft operators to come together and understand the reasons for the licensing and regulations that have now come from these ongoing debates and discussions. But I think, from a general safety standpoint, as much of a pain in the process it may have been to wait for the FAA to deliver a system that we could all latch on to, I think it's a good thing, because the U.S. airspace is one of the most congested and busy in all of the world. So, to keep people who are actually flying in the air safe first, I think it was a good move by the FAA at this point now.

21:12 - What About Price?

ED: So there's a lot of value in having a drone crew that is licensed, that's experience, that has the right tools for the right conditions, asks the right questions of the club. Generally, how do companies typically charge for their services? What should people expect?

JACK: For us, we looked at our traditional ground video production, and I think a lot of guys are implementing their aerial services in the same way, at least for image capturing. I know, when we say drones, there's a lot of context as to what that could mean in terms of data collection, but in terms of aerial imaging, we really break it down by half day or full day, just like we do for ground production. And if there really is a simple one-off, somebody is just looking for one piece of a larger project or one shot, we'll break it down by an hourly rate if that's the case. But generally, to get enough coverage, you'd want at least a half-day time frame. So, four or five hours of flying should get you more than what you need.

ED: That's good because if you've produced a video before, you shoot way more footage for the piece than you ever use. And that's one of the things that can sometimes be hard to swallow for people. You know, you spend all day shooting and you only use 30 seconds or whatever. But that's very similar to drone footage in that way, as well. Let's just talk a little bit about post-production, because it's so easy to fall in love with the images. How do you balance, when you guys go into post-production, what are the things you think about as far as the balance between aerial footage and drone footage? Does what you're shooting dictate that?

JACK: That's a really good point, because as cool as it is to see these aerial perspectives, they can be oversaturated in our content that we're creating. The general messaging of the overall story of the video piece that we're making has really got to be front and center so it doesn't become about cool drone shots. It really is, if it were a golf course making a promotional video, how is it still maintaining your identity and sense of the story you're trying to tell without it just turning into beautiful images to kind of just sit back and enjoy.

ED: Like eye candy, right?

JACK: Yeah, exactly. And that has a place, too, but with so many people able to to get in the air nowadays and film something, it really comes down to selecting and choosing the types of shots. You have your establishing shots from the air, you have your approach shots, you have similar types of conceptual ideas as you would on the ground, in terms of framing and storytelling. That, moving to the air, has to be handled in a similar way if you want your message to still maintain a cohesive feel and not turn into just beauty shots with music to it. That has a place, too, but I think there's a bigger story you can tell if you use those epic drone shots and you intersperse them in a way that you come back to it every so often and you're not just sitting on a real of aerial stuff for the whole video.

24:26 - How Much Drone Video Is Too Much Drone Video?

ED: I remember when I was younger and someone was in a film class and they said, "Count the number of edits in this one part of the movie." And there are so many more edits that are made than what people realize, just because visually it needs to stay interesting. And if you've ever sat down and watched drone shot after a drone shot, after a while you're like this is kind of boring, I want to see something else. And it probably, to your point, doesn't capture the brand of the message or the perspective that the club wants to portray about who they are. Maybe their clubhouse isn't best shot from the air.

JACK: Good point, and even if you are in the air, how are you framing that and what are you really focusing on? If you're just hovering over the whole grounds, kind of just doing a slow pan, that might be a nice establishing look at it, but if that's all it is, really what are you showing? You're right to think, how are you using it in the overall edit in ways that are enhancing the already interesting message that you're trying to get across? How is it used to enhance it rather than overtake it?

25:37 - How to Get Started

ED: Let's put you in the teacher chair here. So if someone is listening to this podcast right now and they're going, "Yeah that's good, but I know I can shoot my own stuff. I'm going to go buy a drone. I've done my research and I've Googled everything I need to know and now I'm going to go ahead and buy." First of all, from a purchasing perspective, what is it people should know when they're looking for gear? Let's start with that and then get into some of the basic piloting things that people should know.

JACK: At least when we started, we started on something really small, and something we knew we would be able to crash and burn. You know, really a toy. Something that's less than half a pound, something that's really light and we were able to fly anywhere inside and smash if we need to. Just to get the flying skills down, the orientation, feeling how certain wind gusts affect your flight, getting used to that on a foundational level is the first step, if you really do have an interest and you're already Googling information and kind of willing to educate yourself. Doing a little bit of practice on that front end with something that you can break if you need to, was huge for me in gaining confidence in the hand-eye coordination. And, also, it's probably not a wise investment to go big right away, get it up in the air, and you get it 50 yards away from you, and your depth perception and perspective of what you're actually doing to impact the movement of the craft changes as you get further out. And you start to notice how wind, at certain altitudes, can change on a dime directionally. So, just getting comfortable with those foundational things, piloting the craft, I think will help inform moving into a purchase of something like a Mavic Air first. Or, do you go with a Phantom 4 first, or do you go all the way up to the Inspire level? Once you know how good you are and comfortable you are flying, after some practice, I think that's when you can make that call.

ED: So is it kind of like driving a stick shift or maybe riding a motorcycle, where there's something in your brain that clicks about the clutch and everything else, that regardless of what you're driving, that idea that timing just makes sense on all of them? Is it similar with piloting a drone, where it's like, if you can get the basics on a really cheap little drone, you should be able to pilot something bigger?

JACK: Absolutely. I couldn't echo that more to be true, in my experience. Very similar to riding a motorcycle, learning how to operate the clutch. And once you just practice and get that muscle memory down, it becomes a habit. Almost like playing a stringed instrument, too. You struggle through figuring out how to play the banjo, as I did, and then at some point, it just clicked and you're like, this is sweet. I say it's a similar skill set in flying the drone or riding a bike.

ED: Do they all come with spare props so if you crash them there's backup?

JACK: That's a good question. They do. The ones that we've bought, they've all been products from DJI, which is a Chinese manufacturer. They're kind of the world leader at this point of drone platforms and aircraft. Yeah, they do all come with spare props, luckily.

28:52 - Shooting and Flying Tips

ED: As it relates to the hobbyist, amateur drone pilot, what are some really basic tips that you would have, especially if they're a solo operator, and they want to get some great shots of their club, are there any basic recommendations, tips you'd give to that person?

JACK: I would definitely say, as you're starting with whatever aircraft you go with, with a one-man option, I would say start slow. When you get out in an open area, or if you're out on a tee box in the golf world, just get a feel for what the wind's doing and what you're able to as you get up to altitude. Generally, there's a 400-foot ceiling on how high you are able to fly, you can get waivers on that, but generally, we'll say 400-foot limit. Get it up to 400 feet and see what that looks like from up there. See how your perspective changes of the tiny speck air, versus right in front of your face. It's a lot easier to see what your thumbstick inputs are affecting, but when it gets further away that's much more challenging. So really know where you are in relation to your drone, and know what heading the drone has. The apps these days make it really easy, to be honest. If you get comfortable flying physically with something small inside and you get outside with whatever video drone you're ready to go get some cool shots with, if you have that practice, I think as long as you're being safe and you do some quick little tests low and slow, you're really good to go after you feel comfortable doing that. It's just a matter of not biting off more than you can chew, and really maintaining the visual line of sight. You do have to keep an eye on the aircraft at all times. So it can't ever escape your field of view. You can't go behind hills or trees or buildings and lose sight of it, even though you're able to maybe still see the feed on your monitor that you have. You still always want to have one eye on the sky and one eye on what you're shooting.

ED: So I'm hearing understanding where you are in relation to the drone. Low and slow. Yeah, that's a good idea. And then taking it up to the ceiling to see what 400 feet looks like.

JACK: And then know what your emergency protocol will be. I've had situations where a battery just kind of conked out mid-flight, and when that happens, it can be a little scary in the moment, to realize you know what you should do. With the one that we built to start with, a long time ago, that actually did happen. I learned a lesson about making sure you land with enough reserves and all that kind of stuff. But now with the app integration, you can set parameters to have a warning that comes on when the battery threshold is at say 20 percent, it'll beep "low battery, time to consider maybe bringing it back," Because if you have the wind at your back and you launch your drone up and you get as far as you can see, but you have half battery now to come back against the wind, you're not going to have that same ability to get back as you did to go as far out as you did. So, stuff like that, you've got to start thinking about with these machines, which are not toys. As much fun as they are, they are aircraft, considered by the FAA, and they are potentially dangerous to many different types of objects. So, just ensuring that you have emergency procedures in place if it did suddenly lose signal. What do you do, do you wait for it to return to home, or are you going to walk up to it be ready to catch it if that were the case? I've seen all kinds of crazy things happen with people online. We've been fortunate not to have too many incidences on our end, but each time there's a close enough call, it's a big learning opportunity.

ED: So, whatever that protocol is, just make sure you know what the rules are. And we do joke around about it, some of the bigger drones are heavy. I mean there's something to them. If you hit someone, run into a car, hit a member, you've got a lot of problems.

JACK: Exactly. And even the noise from them, too. I guess I should mention, as you're out flying, just be cognizant of the people you're flying over or around. Because, for the most part, in my experience, people are generally interested and they think it's really cool technology to come check and ask you a bunch of questions about, but if you're approaching somebody who's not aware of what you're doing and you run up on them and scare them, that's bad for the industry and bad for those people who now see drones as a menacing thing instead of something that can be useful and helpful.

ED: And maybe bad for member relations, too. A lot of people don't like to be videoed. And a lot of people don't like to be caught on video if they're not aware of it, too, so that's really important.

JACK: Absolutely. Make sure you have the right permissions that you need.

33:54 - The Future of Drone Video

ED: Last question, where do you think this is all going? We talked a little bit about how artificial intelligence might impact all this, and where do you see the future of drone photography and videography?

JACK: There's technology out there now with the latest app updates, all kinds of active track modes that you can basically press inputs in your app and the autonomous program will run the flight based on what you draw with your finger, or if you center your focal point on your face, the drone will then fly different routes that you are able to program around your face, now, as you're moving. There are these active tracking technologies that are already on these aircraft. It's still absolutely fundamentally important to understand physically how to fly these things, but what's coming next is going to be how are we reprogramming these things, how are we inputting information so that they can make smarter decisions than we could, because, at the end of the day, we're not the ones on the platform, seeing what they're seeing. They are, and they now have spatial awareness with maybe a swarm of drones. You look at the ag industry, with farming technology, with data acquisition for search and rescue, it's really incredible. For us, one of the most exciting recent things we tried doing is throwing a 360 camera up on the Inspired 2 and see what that looks like. Flying with a 360 perspective. Now, someone can put on a set of VR goggles, and just thinking of future possibilities, what does that virtual golf experience look like? MSP Airport, for example, has a new PGA golf simulator. I've always wanted to stop up in there, and maybe I'll have to, but if you had that type of environment in the 3-D version, I think it's endless where this could go.

ED: Thanks so much for being with us today, and if you want to learn more about Flight Creative Media, where should people go?

JACK: You can check out our website at flightcreativemedia.com, and we're also on Facebook and Instagram and have a blog going if anyone's interested in reading more about what we're up to on a weekly basis.

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